In my Twitter feed, I have a tweet that I use regularly:
Guys: chivalry is an easy, cost-free way to impress a woman.
When this tweet posts, I usually get a retweet or two, but not much traffic. But recently, I got a couple of responses from men, one of whom offers dating advice:
NO!!!! THIS IS WRONG!!! DON’T DO THIS!!!! (advice giver, retweeted to his following)
Chivalry is what women SAY they respond to. But don’t. (another user)
I’m used to getting occasional interesting comments from PUAs and other men who practice less conventional methods to attract women. But this was the first time I’ve had anyone rebel against the idea of basic chivalry. I asked them both why they felt this way, but neither answered me. So I got to thinking about chivalry: what it is, what role it plays in dating and courtship, and why some don’t like it.
What is Chivalry?
From Wikipedia:
Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is the traditional code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood. It was originally conceived of as an aristocratic warrior code — the term derives from the French term chevalerie, meaning horse soldiery — involving, gallantry, and individual training and service to others. Over time its meaning has been refined to emphasize more ideals such as the knightly virtues of honour, courtly love, courtesy, and less martial aspects of the tradition.
The Knight’s Code of Chivalry was a moral system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders. All knights needed to have the strength and skills to fight wars in the Middle Ages; they not only had to be strong but they were also extremely disciplined and were expected to use their power to protect the weak and defenseless.Knights vowed to be loyal, generous, and “of noble bearing”. Knights were required to tell the truth at all times and always respect the honour of women. Knights not only vowed to protect the weak but also vowed to guard the honor of all fellow knights.
From the Urban Dictionary:
something that’s dead and should stay dead.
Son: Daddy, why do I have to let her go first? she’s a creep to everybody.
Dad: Because, when somebody has a certain chemical called estrogen in their body, they automatically deserve more respect than you. It’s called chauvinism, I mean chivalry.
As you can see, there’s a pretty vast gap between the original and historical meaning behind chivalry, and how certain men view chivalry today. The original intent of chivalry was noble in nature, where strong men serve and protect others, including women. In modern times, including in dating, it’s a remnant of the past, a recognition that men are different from women and that a little knightly behavior can be helpful in dating and relationships.
Today, in a society where men and women share social and economic power, some feel that chivalry is unnecessary, even unfair. I’ve had women not trust it, feeling like it doesn’t acknowledge their independence. I’ve had men feel like their acts of chivalry are taken for granted by women. I’ve also had women who love it, and men who feel it should be a part of every man’s repertoire. And of course, people differ in opinion on what chivalry is and whether it’s required, just a nice touch, or simply stupid and pointless.
My view on chivalry is that it should be something a man chooses to do, when he wants to do it. Expecting a man to automatically open a door, pay for a date, or say “ladies first” simply because he’s male doesn’t really serve anyone. As the (genius) Dale Carnegie says in How To Win Friends and Influence People, the best way to get someone to do something is for them to WANT to do it. At the same time, throwing out the entire idea of chivalry because you think it’s unfair or because it doesn’t guarantee a girl will like you is defensive and defeatist.
At the right times, an act of chivalry (e.g. opening a door for a woman, helping her carry a heavy box) makes a man feel masculine (and a woman feel feminine). You don’t act chivalrous because you should or have to, you do it because it feels good to do things for others, including women, and it can pay dividends. Will it get the girl? Not always. But the pleasure of chivalry comes from how it makes you feel, not what it can get you. And if a woman doesn’t appreciate it? I say, find one who does.
What do you all think of chivalry? What is it, and do you find it useful?
Resources
When I act like a gentleman, then quite simply I feel better!
To give up my seat for an woman on a train, or open a door, or walk on the outside of the street, or pay for lunch-these are all acts of simple kindness.
I like my ability to serve and protect others, including women. ~Being a gentleman defines who I am…and while I know that some people disagree that’s OK with me.
I’m a little tired of hearing sad, pick up artists tell men that they should “treat women mean to keep em keen”, I’d rather be kind to everyone and attract a woman who values who I am…anything else is trying way to hard for me.
My most recent blog post addresses this because I’m the guy who tweeted that first response to your original tweet.
Wow, what a topic ! Been struggling with that one a good part of my life and can argue it either way. In the final analysis my opinion is that it kindda comes down to :
Yes. Absolutely ,positively ! A man should open a car door for his lady . He should also have the guts to” show her the door” if she lacks the brains to appreciate that he did.
Just being a wise ass, but Christie, to quote your quote from Wikipedia:
“The Knight’s Code of Chivalry was a moral system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders”
I say bring back the Knight’s Code of Chivalry .But do it verbatim !
” ….widows, children and elders …” Ain’t nothin’ in there about women . And suredly nothing in that code extending to cougars, barracudas, foxes nor cheetahs 🙂
Simply put, chivalrous behavior will place a man into a woman’s Friendzone. The Private Man is correct. Unfortunately, a woman’s actions mean everything and her words mean nothing. That is the long and the short of it.
Chivalry in the historic sense was originally a warriors’ code that over the centuries evolved into a code of “gentlemanly” conduct. But over all that time, it was an aristocratic code and not much practiced outside of high society.
These days “chivalry” has a very different meaning, and different from how you define it. Let’s not confuse “chivalry” with what used to be known as “common courtesy.”
Common courtesy is opening doors for people, helping people struggling with heavy packages, etc. Courtesy is usually extended to everyone.
Chivalry in this context is extending efforts beyond common courtesy by men toward women just because they are women. And in our feminist society, it usually does not pay dividends for most men. Efforts beyond common courtesy by men often come off as trying overly hard to impress a woman and isn’t a winning dating strategy. Not to say that some men can’t pull it off, but a blanket statement that chivalry is a “cost-free” way to impress a woman is kind of a glib platitude.
Couldn’t agree more with this, LostSailor. What many would consider chivalry is what I consider being polite, having manners and just being courteous. It’s just polite to hold open a door for someone, or offering to help someone carry a bulky or heavy package. It’s just good manners to say ‘yes, please’ or ‘no, thank you’ or if you’re from the south, ‘yes ma’am’ or ‘yes sir’. I actually enjoy doing this for people because more often or not it puts a smile on someone’s face when you do this which in turn makes me happy. Picking up the tab for the first couple of dates is my way of saying I respect your time and I am honored to have your company. Maybe it’s for selfish reasons, but doing these things give me pleasur and I do them to make myself happy just as much as it would for the person I’m doing it for.
Hi Christie,
I love all this healthy debate and I absolutely agree with you, a man should show chivalry when he wants to, because it makes him feel good. I personally love when a man shows any kind of chivalry towards me. I certainly don’t expect a total stranger to necessarily show me chivalry just because I’m a woman, but if they do, they’re damn sure to get my full endorsement and genuine thank you. I would never get offended because a man offered to help me in any way! I adore being a woman and adore even more when a man treats me like a woman. It’s true not all women take kindly to acts of chivalry, but the ones who do are well worth it.
Every woman, young and old, hot or not hot should be treated with respect, chivalry and like a gentlemen – it might be old fashioned but it is still true
“Guys: chivalry is an easy, cost-free way to impress a woman.” – is interesting when somebody says that. I am every but and far from being perfect but one thing I always took pride in is chivalry and acting like a perfect gentlemen – and while woman who are truly nothing but friends always like that woman I am interested in usually see me as nice guy (and nice guys finish last) and take off with the bad guy that treats them like crap —
Hi Christie,
as usually I love your post and share. Well as far as the urban dictionary goes that is nonsense but truth is while every woman “says” she likes chivalry woman usually act the opposite I know out of experience
Sharing and book review still coming I had some family issues to take care of more in a private message
A man who opens a door, gives up his seat in the light rail/train for someone, offers to help someone struggling with a bag/package etc. is an attractive quality to me. I feel it shows that the individual is caring of his fellow human beings.
I say to men: do it just to do kindness and service to others. Not just to get a babe or for accolades.
May 28, 2013
To the men that practise chivalry bravo! In my opinion it is one of the nicest qualities I admire about a man. I think extreme feminist attitudes have had a negative influence on men that want to show chivalry. I agree as others have noted that if this is a quality you want to share with a women that is your personal choice. It is still received positively by many confident and liberated women. Chivalary, Gentlemen, Ladies, Class, and Honour all go together. In my opinion these are all very important virtues that are needed to create healthy loving romantic connections. Maybe the lack of these these simple virtues has had a negative impact and caused confusion, and misunderstandings between men and women.
Hi Christie,
PUA advice is all about “staunching the bleeding” so to speak. You have many Nice Guys who were TOO “giving” to women–taking them out on expensive dates too early on, trying to get with a girl by being her friend and doing big favors for her such as helping her move, killing sexual tension by giving too many compliments, and so on. So these guys were given advice that swung very far in the opposite direction–“don’t be chivalrous, don’t pay for dates even if it is cheap, and for cripes sake don’t be a woman’s friend!”. So keep in mind that “chivalry is dead” is a counter reaction to the Nice Guy viewpoint of sacrificing everything for the approval of a woman.
Agreed, Michael. The swinging pendulum is a real problem I see a lot in dating, and in dating experts.
And Lost Sailor, “cost” refers to monetary cost. And you’ll find I’m rarely glib.
It’s called “home training.” Those who grow up in a household where manners are taught, demonstrated, and practiced everyday, act like ladies and gentleman toward each other as adults. For those people there is no discussion about whether chivalry is alive or dead or necessary; it happens naturally. Ultimately, courteousness is what is supposed to exist between everyone, not just men trying to court women.
To everyone who would say chivalry is not necessary, I say put those same people in a situation where people are treating them rudely and inconsiderately and (once they stop complaining) you’ll find out just how much they do believe in it.
Chivalry is indeed dead. I was at the autopsy.
Why can’t I find a chivalrous man? My mother sent me to Swiss finishing school just so I can attend the rest of my life disappointed in the opposite sex? Say it ain’t so! Nice guys ALWAYS finish first with me!